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Talk:Furthest Ring
Killing the Horrorterrors Is it likely that Lord English is the thing killing the horrorterrors in the furthest ring? In the squiddles cartoon, they're being hunted down by Skipper Plumbthroat, who most likely represents LE (pegleg and all). I'd say that makes a pretty strong case that LE is to blame. 11:26, March 12, 2012 (UTC)prunescholar :=o could skipper plumbthroat be an incarnation, or avitar, of lord english in the squiddle session?even if such a thing exists I doubt it's likely we'll ever see it, but it's become ingrained in my head canon =p :Whohoohuwhu (talk) 18:16, December 17, 2014 (UTC) Visual Representation I feel like this should go on this page somewhere because it gives a good visual representation of the Furthest Ring. :http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/05945.gif Or maybe this one. :http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/05393.gif Or this one. :http://www.mspaintadventures.com/storyfiles/hs2/06020.gif :The cracks are in the fabric of the Ring, but aren't part of it. Really, there's actually no such thing as a good visual representation of the Ring, by its very nature, and even if there were one it'd probably just be a black rectangle. Much like Vriska's maps were pre-cracks. Or, indeed, a black rectangle with occasional tentacle gods, which we already have :Really, the only thing I think would look like the Ring is the ... house ::The formatting on that looks pretty messed up, SN. From mobile, at least. Also, what house? 20:00, October 22, 2013 (UTC) :::Since "house" is in blue, I think it's supposed to be a House of Leaves reference. 20:10, October 22, 2013 (UTC) ::::Sounds like a cool book, glad to be aware of it now. Also the formatting looks fine on a computer. 20:28, October 22, 2013 (UTC) Vriska Why didn't Vriska mention anything about the nightmarish realm that she no doubt went to when she slept once she reached god tier? Or was it simply close enough to the end of their game that she didn't have to sleep before the meteor? :Possibly several reasons 1) Like you suggested she never got to sleep between her ascension and the end of the game. 2) God tiers can have normal dreams, it is possible after she ascended she only had normal dreams until the end of the game. 3) She only dreamt in the stable dream bubbles (since due the nature of the Furthest Ring they already existed) and didn't realise she was in the Furthest Ring surrounded by horrorterrors. - The Light6 (talk) 00:57, December 17, 2014 (UTC) :::This is actually a really interesting point. I'm not sure any of those explanations quite work out because, for 1) the troll session lasted significantly longer than the kids' session, Kanaya's frog breeding took her weeks, Vriska had to have slept. 2) God tier players also dream in the furthest ring, we've seen that happen to John 3) I'm pretty sure that the creation of the dream bubbles happened at something like a fixed point in time for the trolls, after they'd arrived on the meteor. Before that, everyone dreamed as their dream selves, up until when Karkat's died. I guess 1 is the most likely, since we don't quite know at which point in the trolls' timeline Vriska ascended, but S Make Her Pay felt pretty early-on in the session, and Karkat and Kanaya weren't doing anything frog-related there. Also, Vriska defeated her denizen at some point after ascending; that and the final battle seem like they'd require sleep. -ConcreteSunshine (talk) 03:56, December 17, 2014 (UTC) ::::I'd like a source on her saying she defeated her denizen after ascending.... anyway, 1) is a self-defeating point. The fact that the session was weeks long also serves the very simple explanation that if she did consider it, this consideration was offscreen. Simple. 2) Yes, Light was saying that. The point is sometimes one, sometimes the other. 3) That's possible... I know Fef did it, but I'm not sure if that was like.... after she died, or before, or what. Anyway, yeah, I bet they all had a good nap shortly after the endgame. 06:05, December 17, 2014 (UTC) :::::Looks like I was already covered but might as well put my own response. :::::1) The troll session lasted 612 hours or 4 and a half weeks, we know that Karkat canonically never slept for this period of time, denizen battle, Black King battle and all, only falling asleep when confronted with the sight of Kanaya chainsawing Tavros's legs off. Therefore there is no reason to assume "Vriska had to have slept" other then the fact we know Karkat was the only one to have not slept. And we know Vriska had already slept before ascension so really regardless of how far into the session her ascension occurred, she would have spent less time awake then Karkat. :::::2) Aepokk already addressed it. Yes god tier players dream in the Furthest Ring, everyone knows that and no one is debating it. The point is that they don't always do so and do actually have normal dreams. It is possible that all the times Vriska slept between ascending and the end of the session she had normal dreams. :::::3) "I'm pretty sure that the creation of the dream bubbles happened at something like a fixed point in time for the trolls" - Time doesn't work like that in the Furthest Ring, or really in paradox space in general. Feferi created the dream bubbles via her deal but at the same time they already existed in the same way that Bec Noir was already in the troll session and only after Vriska encountered him did she become responsible for his existence. :::::- The Light6 (talk) 07:01, December 17, 2014 (UTC) ::::::Ah, I remember what I wanted to add now - we saw Vriska dreaming, apparently interfering with WV's nightmare. And if recent dialogue from Vriska in-comic is to be believed, Carapacians do in fact dream in the bubbles, at least occasionally. 07:36, December 17, 2014 (UTC) :::::::ah, we can confirm that she slept while she was GT, because that Vriska was GT... so either she didn't see the horrors, or they did not shake her. :(resetting indent) Hm, I'm still sort of unsure about this, though! I guess it's possible that she saw the horrorterrors and just reacted to them in private over the long span of her session, but I'm almost certain that she must have seen them. :Aepokk, Vriska talked about her denizen in alternate dead John's dream bubble . :Also, I don't think Karkat never slept (do you have a source?). Vriska said "he hardly slept a wink over the whole 600 hour span of our quest... He didn't even wake up on the moon until AFTER we won the game , but that doesn't mean no sleep ever. I'm pretty sure that trolls are said to have sleep cycles similar to humans', just nocturnal. He just never slept during the 6 hours on the meteor after Prospit was destroyed. :And the argument that Vriska was shown sleeping in WV's dream and not seeing horrorterrors doesn't work, because by the time Vriska was shown sleeping then, dream bubbles had already been created. She woke up in S Wake, 3:14 to the critical moment. Feferi talked to the horrorterrors (and got them to create bubbles) while sleeping after Derse was destroyed, which happened 4:13 to the critical moment, earlier than Vriska's dream. So Vriska had just appeared in a dream bubble with WV. :I don't think we've ever seen GT players actually having normal dreams, though. :This is just interesting because I would like to have seen Vriska's view of the horrorterrors. (Would she have been unnerved, like Dave, or fascinated, like Rose?) I guess she came across them when tracking LE, but I don't remember he ever directly talking about them. :Also, I know that paradox space has no normal concept of time, but trolls have pretty regularly referred to the dream bubbles' creation as an event that occurred before or after certain times. And why else would Karkat and Jade see horrorterrors the only times they slept with dead dream selves, but then always dream in bubbles after that? And I distinctly remember pre-scratch trolls mentioning the bubbles' creation. -ConcreteSunshine (talk) 01:25, December 18, 2014 (UTC) ::Dude, yeah. There are countless other characters who also made no mention of the horrorterrors on-screen, I don't see why we're fixating on Vriska. ::Thanks for the link! ::I don't think anybody was arguing trolls have a different length of sleep cycle, that would be why Karkat's lack of sleep was cast as abnormal even by other trolls. I could've sworn it was said he didn't sleep at all, though.... ::Actually, the reason I brought up Vriska and WV wasn't to prove that point. It was simply the only time I remembered her sleeping on-screen. I was, however, trying to make the side point that apparently carapacians do dream in the bubbles. Well, when within a fort of imagination, at least. ::I'll agree the trolls refer to it as a fixed point in time.... Also, I vaguely recall Karkat saying something about horrible monsters, probably owing to the reason he didn't sleep.... Actually, I think he didn't sleep at all in the session, for real, and was shown to do so exactly once on the meteor, just prior to Alterniabound. And did the alpha trolls say something about the bubbles? 23:23, December 18, 2014 (UTC)